Rudy Giuliani appeared on NBC’s Meet the Press Sunday morning in yet another attempt to divert his client Donald Trump from acquiescing to an interview for special counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation into Russian meddling in the 2016 presidential election. Not because his client would lie, Giuliani asserted, but because the president might present a version of the truth that wouldn’t be the same as Mueller’s version.

In a sequence rivaling Kellyanne Conway’s Sunday morning extemporaneous invention of the Orwellian “alternative facts” more than a year ago, Giuliani’s sit-down with Chuck Todd became a surreal battle over what the word “truth” actually means.

“When you tell me that, you know, he should testify because he’s going to tell the truth and he shouldn’t worry, well that’s so silly because it’s somebody’s version of the truth. Not the truth,” Giuliani began, before Todd stopped him by saying, “Truth is truth.”

“No, it isn’t truth,” Giuliani said. “Truth isn’t truth. The President of the United States says, ‘I didn’t. . .’”

Todd interrupted again, clarifying, “Truth isn’t truth?” When Giuliani responded, “No, no,” Todd sighed, “This is going to become a bad meme.”

Giuliani’s quest to keep Trump away from a deposition has gotten more furtive over the last few weeks, as he continues to cite the “perjury trap” argument against having the president testify. “The reality is, you can be accused of perjury when you’re telling the absolute truth,” Giuliani said during a Fox News appearance last weekend, explaining his fears that that those on the other side can just choose not to believe Trump, even if he does tell the truth.

We now await the memes.